Avid Editor's Insights

The BNP is not a Nazi party, Right? Why does Infidels Bloggers Alliance so against the BNP?

Posted by avideditor on February 23, 2009

I am against all jihadis on an ideological ground. It has nothing to do with race. It seems IBA is wagging a “jihad” against the BNP. It seems they have been reading LGF too much. I am an American and I admit that I do not know that much about the BNP. To my knowledge some of the BPN leaders are pro Nazi. McCain was old and for open borders it does not mean all the republicans that supported him where old and for open borders. He was just the lesser of two evils IMHO. To my knowledge the BNP party is not a Nazi party. I think Meline Philps is wrong in saying this 

“For the BNP is truly a racist party which stands for a racially pure Britain. Pretending that it merely wants to preserve British culture, it actually believes that anyone who is not white or is a Jew will pollute that culture.”

Is my instinct right and is Melanie wrong or is the BNP really so misguided? Why is the IBA waging a “jihadi” against the BNP? Until I get answers I am now longer going to link to one of my favorite sites, the IBA. But feel free to read “What does Losing Really Mean?” if you want. IMHO it is one of the best blog post I have ever read.

24 Responses to “The BNP is not a Nazi party, Right? Why does Infidels Bloggers Alliance so against the BNP?”

  1. DJM said

    I’ve never seen any indication of BNP being racist. But then again, I’ve never looked for any.

    I’d be interested in hearing some evidence one way or another as well.

  2. midnight rider said

    Ok numbnuts. I left this at IBA with Pastorius’ post but it seems you won’t travel there among us unwashed any longer so i’ll invade your space this once *then go home and shower) to leave it here as well.

    from the Constitution of the British National Party:

    2) The political objectives of the party are set out in the following Statement of
    Principles:-
    (a) The British National Party is a party of British Nationalism, committed to the
    principle of national sovereignty in all British affairs. It is pledged to the restoration
    of the unity and integrity of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern
    Ireland. It believes that the indigenous peoples of the entire British Isles, and
    their descendants overseas, form a single brotherhood of peoples, and is pledged
    therefore to adapt or create political, cultural, economic and military institutions
    with the aim of fostering the closest possible partnership between these peoples.
    (b) The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic
    character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial
    integration between British and non-European peoples. It is therefore committed
    to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by
    legal changes, negotiation and consent, the overwhelmingly white makeup of the
    British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948.

    SECTION 2: MEMBERSHIP
    1) The British National Party represents the collective National, Environmental, Political,
    Racial, Folkish, Social, Cultural, Religious and Economic interests of the indigenous
    Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as
    closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the
    European race also resident in Britain. Membership of the BNP is strictly defined
    within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal
    ambit of a defined ‘racial group’ this being ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ and defined ‘ethnic
    groups’ emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of
    Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983) 1 ALL ER 1062, HL.
    2) The indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of ‘Indigenous
    Caucasian’ consist of members of: i) The Anglo-Saxon Folk Community; ii) The Celtic
    Scottish Folk Community; iii) The Scots-Northern Irish Folk Community; iv) The
    Celtic Welsh Folk Community; v) The Celtic Irish Folk Community; vi) The Celtic
    Cornish Folk Community; vii) The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community; viii) The
    Celtic-Norse Folk Community; ix) The Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community; x) The
    Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European Folk Community; xi) Members of these ethnic
    groups who reside either within or outside Europe but ethnically derive from them.
    3) Membership of the party shall be open only to those who are 16 years of age or over
    and whose ethnic origin is listed within Sub-section 2

    ok, from the British National Party Manifesto from BBC Online:

    Our Agenda for Change
    On current demographic trends we, the native British people, will be an ethnic
    minority in our own country within sixty years. By 2020, an extra 5-7 million
    immigrants will have entered Britain, whilst immigrant communities already resident
    here are having more children than the indigenous British people. The estimates for
    the numbers of illegal immigrants resident in the country vary from 250,000 to over a
    million.
    To ensure that we do not become a minority in our own homeland, and that the
    native British peoples of our islands retain their culture and identity, we call for an
    immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of all bogus
    asylum seekers, all criminal entrants and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a
    system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants and their descendants
    who are legally here are afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic
    origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the
    countries in question.
    We will abolish the ‘positive discrimination’ schemes

    …We do not accept the absurd superstition – propagated for different
    though sometimes overlapping reasons by capitalists, liberals, Marxists and
    theologians – of human equality. Whether the now totally discredited feminist
    argument that men and women are innately the same, to the partly refuted egalitarian
    claim that everyone within a given population is born as a blank slate with the same
    innate potential, or to the still dominant Politically Correct denial of the existence of
    differences on average between members of different races – we reject all these
    irrational myths.
    This must not be taken to mean or imply that we believe that any particular ethnic
    group or race is ‘superior’ or ‘inferior’; we simply recognise that – as any biologist
    would be able to predict, and the new medical science of pharmacogenetics is now
    confirming – human populations which have undergone micro-evolutionary changes
    while being separated for many thousands of years have developed differences in
    many fields of endeavour, susceptibility to health problems, behavioural tendencies
    and such like.

    from The Guardian: He wrote in his own publication, The Rune: ‘I am well aware that orthodox opinion is that 6m Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into soup and lampshades… I have reached the conclusion that the “extermination” tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria.’

    Now, this is not even a scratch of what’s out there, written by spoken by believed in by BNP leaders and members themselves. And damn if it isn’t all on Wikipedia! What!? you say. That useless bunch of incorrectness? Well, the links themselves to party documents and interviews don’t lie. Let’s take this straight from wikipedia: Racial and immigration policies
    At its founding, the BNP was explicitly racist. In October 1990, the BNP was described by the European Parliament’s committee on racism and xenophobia as an “openly Nazi party … whose leadership have serious criminal convictions [sic]”.[92] When asked in 1993 if the BNP was racist, its deputy leader Richard Edmonds said, “We are 100 per cent racist, yes”.[92] Founder John Tyndall proclaimed that “Mein Kampf is my bible”.[93] When Nick Griffin became chairman in 1999, the party began to change its stance with regard to racial issues. Griffin claims to have repudiated racism, instead espousing what he calls “ethno-nationalism”. He claims that his core ideology is “concern for the well-being of the English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish ethnic nations that compose the United Kingdom”.

    The BNP publicly disavows any interest in white supremacy, which it defines as the “wish to rule over foreign peoples”; detractors[who?] consider this definition overly narrow. The BNP requires that all members must be members of the “Indigenous Caucasian” racial group.[19] The party does not regard non-white people as being British, even if they have been born in the UK and are naturalized British citizens. Instead, Griffin has stated that “non-Europeans who stay”, while protected by British law, “will be regarded as permanent guests”.[94]

    The BNP is opposed to mixed-race relationships on the stated ground that racial differences must be preserved; it claims that when a white person produces a mixed-race child, “a white family line that stretches back into deep pre-history is destroyed.” The party does however have a half-Turkish Cypriot, half-English councillor in Lawrence Rustem.[95][96] In 2006, Sharif Abdel Gawad, a grandson of an Armenian refugee (also of partial Greek ancestry), was chosen as a council candidate in Bradford. The selection was reported to have caused some dissent within parts of the BNP,[97] however, it was defended by the BNP leadership who said “ordinary members can rest assured that Sharif Gawad is not a racial alien. Sharif, despite his name, is white and British and the British National Party is staying true to its core principles”.[17] “Mr Gawad fulfilled the BNP criteria of being “a member of the white European race of people”, they affirmed.[98]

    GO ahead, pop over there I’ll make it easy for you cut (no running with scissors!) and paste (clean up your mess)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party#Racial_and_immigration_policies

    then follow their annotations and links.

    Then, if you still think we’re on a witch hunt here, well, sod off.

    now, call me ignorant but that all sounds pretty racist to me.

    oh, and while you’re at it, though I overlook it in quickly typed comments I would suggest you clean up your grammer and syntax in posts or the BNP will be pushing to have you deported next.

  3. avideditor said

    Why did you call me a “numbnut.”? I am sure my syntax and grammar are not perfect. But most people get the point I make. Isn’t that all that matters. But seriously where is the proof that the BPN is against the Jews. I did not come out against or for the BPN. I am now an American and I admit and in my post and I admitted that I know little of them. I made very clear that I am against judging people not on there race but on their ideas. Yes I think the IBA is on a “jihad” against the BNP and I am no longer linking to them. I know you are a major poster at the IBA. Show some proof please. I am against all the accusations. I think it is great your are against jihadis but please show me proof at what your are saying. Seriously linking to wikipedia and the BBC mean nothing to me. Those organizations are pro jihadi and lose their truth in their accusations.
    I think it is a great honor to have Shiva post here. I think you should pay Shiva more respect.

  4. Did you see my video and essay on the BNP on IBA? We’ve had a long discussion. I’d be interested in your comments. It is not anti-BNP.

    As a result of the discussion, and the links people sent, I have been swayed that the BNP may be okay. That is they may be culturist and not racist.

    It was posted Thursday the 26th, If it is too much scrolling to see the video by the time you read this, you can at least see the video at

    Thanks for stirring discussion,

    Culturist John
    http://www.culturism.us

    • avideditor said

      It seems your video is no longer available on youtube. Is it any where else? Sorry for taking so long to post your comment wordpress.com is weird with comments containing more then one link.
      I said this already but the comments seem to have switch directions making the numbering different. It gets harder each day to stay anonymous online.

  5. Midnight Rider said

    Reread my comments. Wikipedia is not always the most reliable. Think what you will of the BBC (not my favorites either) but when the link is to the Constitution of the BNP itself

    (b) The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic
    character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial
    integration between British and non-European peoples. It is therefore committed
    to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by
    legal changes, negotiation and consent, the overwhelmingly white makeup of the
    British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948.

    Membership of the BNP is strictly defined
    within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal
    ambit of a defined ‘racial group’ this being ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ and defined ‘ethnic
    groups’ emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords

    or from their Manifesto

    a
    system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants and their descendants
    who are legally here are afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic
    origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals

    or Nick Griffin’s own writings

    in his own publication, The Rune: ‘I am well aware that orthodox opinion is that 6m Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into soup and lampshades… I have reached the conclusion that the “extermination” tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria.’

    Now if their own writings don’t convinvce you then there is no convincing you. Thus the numbnuts crack. Their own words and you refuse to see it, would rather excoriate IBA. So be it. It’s not my writing that needs to be defended here, it is the BNP’s itself.

    I do apologize for the crack on your grammer. Mine is none to hot sometimes as well.

    As for Shiva I don’t recall having any dust up with him myself so I am not sure what you are referring to.

  6. Midnight Rider said

    Avid Editor — Congratulations on now being an American. And I mean that sincerely. How long have you lived here?

    Where did you emmigrate from?

    I ask partly out of true interest and partly to point out that in America it doesn’t matter where you come from you will have the same opportunity as anyone else on our shores.

    But if you are from, say, Indonesia or Sudan or Israel or Ethiopia or China in Britain the BNP would say you can’t come in. According to the pieces I pointed out above.

  7. Midnight Rider,

    Interesting and damning stuff. I’ve read too much on the BNP this morning. But I can find lots of stuff that shows they’ve reformed their principles. i wonder if the party principles you posted have been superseded. I noted that the concern over the elected official was recent.

    Again, I think we have to define a party. If the membership is not racist, the leaders cannot stray too far from that position. At that point what a document or Nick Griffin thought ten years ago is irrelevant. So we have to define ‘party’ when we ask if the BNP is racist.

    Have a good one!! Culturist John

  8. avideditor said

    Thanks Midnight Rider and Culturist John for answering me in the comment section and thank you Pastorious for linking what I wrote in a post. http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2009/02/bnp-is-not-nazi-party-right-why-does.html Did you notice I only asked a question? I was hard on the IBA because I respect the IBA so much and I was frankly surprised at how you came out on this issue. I now know too much about British politics. I feel bad for people living in Britain. I think their once great county is turning into Eurabia.
    Lets just say I am born and raised in American and both of my grandparent fought in WW2 for the US. I would give your more info but all the crazy jihadist that send me death threats every day would like it too much. But I love America. I just do not like the direction the US is now turning, hopefully it is only temporary.
    Sorry for dragging Shivas name out there. He/she writes amazing post IMHO. I hope he/she continues the good work.
    I think the BNP changed recently but who really knows. I am a conservative. But to say I think like Pat Buchanan is a mistake. I have little respect for Pat Buchanan. I think Buchanan is wrong about 99% of things at least.
    In future posts I am going to link to the IBA. Thanks for explaining yourselves. I just feared IBA was going the way of LGF.I hope you do not. 🙂
    BTW great post Culturist John http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2009/02/bnp-culturist-or-racist.html

  9. Midnight Rider said

    Avid Editor — it’s a discussion that is important and needs to be had for reasons we don’t need to rehash right at the moment (hop over to IBA and see the argument going on there 🙂

    Asking the question was not where I took umbrage. Condemning IBA (at the time) without hearing our explanations, reasons, and then refusing to link based on that was where I got ticked.

    That now seems settled, the hatchet between us buried and I retract the numbnuts comment:)

    Arguing and disagreeing is what we do best at IBA. But we do not support racism in any of it’s guises and to me, Pasto & Epa especially, that’s how we see BNP. Can it change, sure, but we don’t really see that happening.

    When I posted the Melanie Phillips article I didn’t intend to set off this much fun 🙂

    Oh, and Pat Buchanan drives nutz. I can’t stand him.

    I’ll cross post this comment at the original Phillips article at IBA as well.

  10. avideditor said

    I just said this “Until I get answers I am now longer going to link to one of my favorite sites, the IBA.” i got the answers. I no longer think the IBA is on a “jihad” against the BNP. I have yet to see evidence to back up the Philips quote
    “For the BNP is truly a racist party which stands for a racially pure Britain. Pretending that it merely wants to preserve British culture, it actually believes that anyone who is not white or is a Jew will pollute that culture.”
    I would like the evidence if some exist. But Seriously I had enough of British politics for today at least.
    I hate Jihadis and Nazis. I am against ideologies not races. But I think calling people Nazis who are not is dangerous. This is a great trailer BTW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pel3GE97evA
    Was Pastorius trying to compare me to BFB in his post? I am not sure. http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2009/02/bnp-is-not-nazi-party-right-why-does.html

  11. Pastorius said

    Avid Editor,

    No, I was not trying to compare you to BFB in that post. Not at all. I’m sorry that you thought that might be the case. I am sorry if I was not clear enough.

  12. Midnight Rider said

    While I would not presume to answer for Pastorius I don’t read the post that way, comparing you to BFB.

    You had asked if we were on a mission to take down BNP (I’m paraphrasing) and if so, why, what evidence did we have?

    He put up BFB’s comments as some of the more vile we get to make his point that BNP is rife with racism, not comparing you to them but answering your question, which actually came across to us as a charge instead of a question.

  13. avideditor said

    re 4: It seems your video is no longer available on youtube. Is it any where else? Sorry for taking so long to post your comment wordpress.com is weird with comments containing more then one link.
    re 11: Thanks for answering me Pastorius. It seemed like you really did not like me. I was wondering why.
    re 12: I guess there is a statement in this question, “Why is the IBA waging a “jihadi” against the BNP?” Sorry about that. I was wrong. That is how I felt. It seems that way if you just look at just this post. http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2007/10/we-hate-fucking-bnp.html

  14. shiva said

    No Ibloga is not going the same way as LGF

    Ibloga has stated very clearly it is opposed to the BNP, yet it doesn’t oppose discussion, also, I post there even though I have stated openly that I conditionally support the BNP.

    As a supporter of BNP, I think it is important that Ibloga is critical of BNP, as there are racist elements within the BNP that need to be addressed so as to move forward.

    Myself, I am tired of being involved in discussions about whether the BNP are racist/antisemetic or not, especially when the mainsteam parties Lab/Lib/Con are guilty of the same.

    What I object to is wankers like Melanie Philips calling the BNP odious, by this she is labeling me odious. Fuck her! There are many who have been working harder and for a lot longer than she has, and she is only echoing what the BNP has been saying for years, where was Philips in 2001 when BNP where warning about islam. Where was, Philips when the Keighley grooming affair started, and Griffin was charged for racism when speaking out about the Paki rapists at a speech in Keighley.

    I am offended by her remark, because I have devoted more time in working against Islam than she ever has, and I do not have a paymaster.

    Philips and her sorry ilk must please their readers whose national identity has been outraged, but not upset their master such as the traitorous BBC, the Daily mail and the Conservative supporting antisemitic Spectator. She is just another useful idiot for the Lab/Lib/Con.

  15. midnight rider said

    Shiva — I, for one, am very happy you post at IBA though we may have some difference of opinions. You have some very unique, insightful and occassionally, um, colorful 🙂 posts.

    Not only does IBA not suppress discussion, we encourage it. You know that well. Pasto himself said in one of the threads that this was one of the most important we’ve had.

    I put up the Philips piece to encourage such discussion. I may agree with some none or all. Your mileage may vary. But I wasn’t expectin’ this much discussin’ 🙂

    So, one more time, we are not on a witch hunt, but make our position very clear on such matters.

  16. shiva said

    In response to midnight rider,s exposure of BNP,s manifesto, I would like to round it off with what was missing from the Wikipedia

    Art and Culture
    Schools in England will be encouraged to celebrate May Day and other ancient festivals, whilst the other folk nations of the British Isles will be encouraged to resurrect their ancestral folk traditions.
    We will introduce the requirement that all children will be taught English as their first language in Britain , but also learn about their local ancestral language as well. This
    will apply to Welsh, Cornish, Manx, Scots Gallic, Doric or Lallans in Great Britain , and Ulster Lallans and Gaelic in Northern Ireland. English children will also be given an
    appreciation of the language of the Anglo-Saxon folk and to appreciate the beauty of Anglo-Saxon culture, such as its poetry, art and the meaning of citizenship.

    Those from foreign ethnic backgrounds resident in Britain will be given the choice of either having their children educated in Faith or Folk schools that will teach them the traditions and heritage of their ancestral cultures, or of attending classes in schools that educate them about their ancestral heritage. We believe that all children suffer when deprived of their right to an ancestral identity and contact with their culturalroots.
    We will encourage black and ethnic minority schools and religious schools run by parents and staff that educate those children as to their ancestral heritage and instill pride in their culture and ethnicity.

    What other Political party is promoting all the cultures of UK and allowing ethnics to learn about their own at the expense of the taxpayer?

    More importantly, what other European City or world city would promote it’s ethnic population to learn their own history at the expense of the taxpayer?

  17. midnight rider said

    Shiva — the Wikipedia links to the entire BNP Constitution, manifesto, interviews, The Rune piece etc. It is there for folks to read it all discuss and make up their own minds. Don’t take wiki’s word for it, or mine. Read the articles entire. Research and learn more and make up their own minds.

    Salud! good sir.

  18. midnight rider said

    One more thing.

    Though I may debate hotly what you think, I tell no man what they must think.

    The other is the way Islam works.

  19. shiva said

    midnight rider said

    Not only does IBA not suppress discussion, we encourage it. You know that well. Pasto himself said in one of the threads that this was one of the most important we’ve had.

    Yes, this is very true, and this is why I have great respect for IBA.

    It is this quality that makes IBA stand above many others, even JW, where many who support the BNP have been banned. Just a few days ago RtL (Lionheart was banned). I was also banned, but can now post again because JW switched to Intense Debate, so with a new account, I could resume posting under the name of Shiva.

    I do not want to get involved in discussing the BNP and racism/antisemitism as it distracts me from focusing on the perils of Islam. If we are to focus on racism/antisemitism then we should tackle all the political parties because they are all guilty, just focusing on the BNP is a serious mistake, and does not address the scourge of racism/antisemitism.

    I would like to pose one question, what are the motives of the people who are mounting this propaganda campaign against the BNP,
    Are they really concerned about racism, or are the concerned about losing their place at the feeding trough?

    What I do ask is for is more research should be done one the people who are critical of the BNP.

    One of the most vocal is Melanie Philips, Now she is a Journalist and speaks out against Islam, yet she gets her pay check from the BBC, the same paymaster of Allan Johnson (the muslim) who turned out to be the camels nose which lead the British Government to start talks with Hamas.

    If Philips was so concerned about Israel, why is she keeping quite about this, or is her pay check more important.

    Did you know that one of BBC,s director son has converted to islam, no I expect not.

    Many who attack the BNP, do so out of here say, just like David Miliband did about Wilders Fitna.

  20. Pastorius said

    Avid Editor,
    Let me be clear about this, I was not comparing you to BFB.

    🙂

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