The Joys of Being Banned at Liberty Forest
Posted by Glezele Vayne on November 26, 2009
By Ellie Katz
Cross-posted at Avid Editor’s Insights
I have had the unmitigated pleasure of being banned from Liberty Forest, a website which purports to promote the ideology of the Libertarian Party, and specifically, the agenda of Dr. Ron Paul and his son, Dr. Rand Paul. Turns out however, it is a haven for antisemites. What a feather in my cap.
Those who come to the site with sympathy towards the State of Israel, Jews or Judaism had better walk softly. Any itty bitty sign of rudeness will be noticed and quickly censured by either JoshLowry (Admin) or the moderators. Awhile back, I had decided I was going to leave the forum permanently on post number 777. I have better things to do with my time.
My candid views of these people earned me a place in the banned pile. No matter. I have saved every single thread I participated in. My words, and theirs are preserved for my future reference.
The main reason I chose to stick around, even after discovering how tolerated Jew haters are, and how intolerant they are of having that fact pointed out, was because arguing, even with antisemites, tends to solidify my own learning. I guess I have a heretofore undiscovered learning style: Arguing. My mother has been telling me this for years. And years. She is a worn out woman. A saint even.
After listening to one of my favorite rabbis tell off an antisemite who called him to insult him, I decided it was okay to insult antisemites, as long as there is incontrovertible evidence that they are indeed antisemites and not just innocently uninformed.
I do not excuse Dr. Paul in this matter either. I emailed his official site and told him about what was going on, since his name appears as a part of the site’s name. I figured his campaign people would care that this sort of vitriol was being spewed at a site with his name.
I was wrong. And disappointed, because I was an enthusiastic Ron Paul supporter during his run for President. I do believe the Federal Reserve is a problem. I just don’t happen to believe the problem of the Federal Reserve is a part of some vast, evil Zionist conspiracy. On the contrary, I believe the Jewish state, and Jews will be among the first victims if world governance, (the Federal Reserve is a part of this whole thing) ever comes into being.
To be fair, the vast majority of members at Liberty Forest are probably genuine believers in small government, returning to the constitution, ridding the American people of the chain and ball called the Federal Reserve etc. etc. etc. Things many Americans know must change if we are to retain and regain our freedoms. The problem with the site is the free reign the antisemites have…all in the name of “freedom of speech” according to one moderator who’s handle is Cowlesy. I think I spelled that correctly.
Freedom of speech goes both ways. The haters can spew their venom. Yes. They have that freedom. And good people also have the right and duty to put them in their place, to let them know their hateful views are not appreciated. JoshLowry and LibertyEagle certainly had no problem giving me what for when they thought I had stepped over the line with my occasional mild terseness or rudeness. In comparison to what was being said to me…very, very mild…boy scout type rudeness. My irritability didn’t even rise to the level of mild PMS…sheesh.
My last post is at the end of the thread. This is a short thread with the outrageous title “Israel: 60 Years of Ethnic Cleansing and Mass Murder.”
Say what??? That is the sort of vilification of Jews (and it is Jews who are targeted with those lies) that makes for the mass murder of Jews. Please see the article, The Modern Protocols of Zion by Dr. Francisco Gil-White in order to understand the anatomy of genocide.
“Genocides don’t just happen. The killers must think they kill in self defense. Which is to say that the victims of an extermination must first be perceived as a mortal danger. For this, a propaganda campaign will be necessary.”
Dr. Gil-White has many insightful articles on history, and another entitled What is a Genocide, to the Social Scientist? that I haven’t read yet. I intend to read the entire site, and buy any books he publishes.
Remember, JoshLowry, Cowlesly, Liberty Eagle and my all time favorite member Danke: I never promised you I would not post my copied threads on my blog unless there were some rules at Liberty Forest which prohibited me from doing so. You’re on notice.
Furthermore, you have known from very early on in my activities at Liberty Forest that I was copying my threads, yet you continued to allow the Jew haters, one named Old Ducker who actually called for the death of Israel and Zionists, to run rampant at your site, while calling me out if you perceived me to be slightly insulting or condescending on occasion. That while members were PM’ing me privately, lamenting the antisemitism on the site, and giving me pats on the back for my restraint in not clobbering some of these goofballs.
I finally clobbered them. Except for the few good members who contacted me and told me they were in agreement. I suffer with them as they struggle to find a political party that is pro-American, pro-Constitution — in reality, which does not also provide excuses and a haven for Jew haters. Dr.3D, Lamekin, The Objectivist, my hat’s off to you. And any other long-suffering Libertarians at Liberty Forest who are weary of what they wryly termed “the memo.”
My original intent in copying all threads I posted in and saving them to disk was in order that my words would be preserved, just in case someone gets the bright idea to do some creative editing. I have had that happen at some blogs where I’ve posted. For that reason, I rarely post at blogs where the POV is in opposition to my own. I have found the antisemitic ones to be particularly dishonest…had a very bad experience at “Steph’s blog” (WordPress).
Prior to this last week, I had been very polite to these people, in spite of the extreme rudeness, the not infrequent virulent hatefulness, and relative incoherence of most of their posts. The more hateful members rarely managed to discipline their responses within my threads and stay on-point. I chose to set aside my reserve in my last post. No politeness there whatsoever, though me at my rudest is my ideological opponents at Liberty Forest at their most polite.
Once again, I honor Dr.3D, my faithful friend at Liberty Forest, the Objectivist, a truly intelligent person who also became increasingly agitated with the idiocy at the site and found himself banned, as did Lamekin…who was banned for reasons unknown to me, but spoke sensibly on the subject of the dispute between the Jews and Arabs in the Middle East. And to all the good people at Liberty Forest, I say … get out.
WarDog 11-09-2009 12:25 AM
Israel: 60 years of Ethnic Cleansing and Mass Murder
If my sons did not want wars, there would be none. ~ Gutle Schnaper, Mayer Amschel Rothschilds wife
Signs and symbols rule the world, not words nor laws. Confucius
whoever dares are cause reveal shall test the strength of knightly steel and when the torture proves to dull well scrap there brains from out of his skull and place a lamp within the shell to light his soul from here to HELL…” Yale University Skull & Bones Secret Society Blood oath.
WarDog 11-09-2009 12:28 AM
It wont allow me to post the link whats going here?
Uriel999 11-09-2009 12:29 AM
Dr.3D 11-09-2009 12:30 AM
Yep, that must be the reason. :rolleyes:
Danke 11-09-2009 12:32 AM
ElyaKatz 11-09-2009 03:22 AM
“This blog takes its name from the Fifth Labor of Herakles, to clean the stables of Augeas, where thousands of cattle had left so much un-cleaned dung that the whole Peloponnesus smelled of it. At Second Draft, our discovery of both Pallywood and the Al-Durah Affair have led us to realize that — at least where the Arab-Israeli conflict is concerned — our MSM represent a veritable Augean Stables of accumulated misreporting. We dedicate this weblog to exploring the many aspects of our MSM’s problem, not only those concerned with the Middle East problem, but more broadly with the many ways in which our media’s errors and our media’s extraordinary resistance to admitting their errors, have contributed and continue to contribute to the serious problems that plague our globe in this young 21st century.”
WClint 11-09-2009 03:25 AM
I dont really care what happens in Israel, no entangling alliances. The only people I have a problem with are the Neocons who try to involve in issues that are concern.
Liberty Star 11-09-2009 03:33 AM
Their radicalized PM is heading to US to meet with Obama under some emergency that their reign of terror could be coming to end:
Instead of this new Palestinian state declaration, Obama should just plainly tell him when he arrives that they would not get a single penny from the announced $30Billion tax payer aid package till they elect a Palestinian Arab Christian as PM of as part of One State solution.
And after that happens, tell them that was just an incentive to end apartheid, 60 years of aid was enough, time to carry your own weight.
Dieseler 11-09-2009 03:38 AM
What you think Elly Mae?
ElyaKatz 11-26-2009 01:01 PM
There is no apartheid in Israel. You have never personally witnessed apartheid, nor have you ever lived in Israel, or you would be embarrassed to make such a claim. If there is a One State Solution, it will be the annexing of Judea and Samaria by Israel, which is perfectly within their legal rights, according to the Palestine Mandate. Judea and Samaria are legally unallocated portions of the Mandate, not a part of any sovereign nation, and is recognized within the language of the Mandate as the heritage of the Jewish people, their restored national homeland. Calling Judea and Samaria “occupied territory” is political sloganeering, and bears no relation to the legal reality, as any politician who is informed and working on these issues knows.
Western Palestine was never recognized as a part of any Arab nation. The Arabs have 22 nations, and do not need one more. There is a commitment not to infringe on the personal rights of the current non-Jewish residents within Israel. There is no infringement of the personal or political rights in being a citizen of the Jewish state. The Arabs within pre-’67 Israel enjoy far more in the way of education, prosperity, personal and political rights than any Arabs in any other nation in the Middle East.
Re Netanyahu, media brainwashing notwithstanding, he is a centrist PM, hardly radicalized. His speeches are right wing, yet he continues the same agenda Israel has been hurtling towards since Oslo. To whit, the current freeze on construction in Judea and Samaria.
Second, I only hope Israel decides to decline any foreign aid. It will be a tough row to hoe, convincing the US defense industry to agree to the US cutting it off…so the initiative will have to be Israel’s. This “aid” generates a tremendous amount of US jobs, between what Israel buys, and then what the Arab/Muslim nations buy in order to compete with Israel. But for the sake of the federal constitution, and for the sake of Israel’s sovereignty, it would be best to stop the farce.
Then, perhaps Israel will be able to elect Moshe Feiglin, or some Israeli PM (assuming the US Administration stops interfering in Israeli elections) someone with spine enough to remind the US Administration and State Department that Israel is, in fact, a sovereign nation.
THE MYTH OF ISRAEL’S DEPENDENCE ON THE UNITED STATES by Dr. Paul Eidelberg
“Now, contrary to conventional wisdom, Israel’s military and economic dependence on the U.S. is a myth. Some years ago Joseph Sisco, former Assistant Secretary of State, told Israeli author Shmuel Katz, ‘I want to assure you, Mr. Katz, that if we were not getting full value for our money, you would not get a cent from us.’ American foreign policy-makers are pragmatists, not moralists. U.S. aid to Israel is animated by national self-interest—pious platitudes to the contrary notwithstanding. Israel is and has been America’s biggest strategic bargain.
“According to Gen. George Keegan, former chief of U.S. Air Force Intelligence, while Israel annually received $1.8 billion in military grants from the U.S. between 1974-1990, Israeli aid to America was worth between $50-80 billion in intelligence, research and development savings, Soviet weapons systems captured and transferred to the Pentagon, and testing Soviet military doctrines up to 1990, when the USSR collapsed.
“Moreover, the bulk of the $1.8 billion Israel currently receives in military aid must be spent in the U.S., where it provides jobs for an estimated 50,000 American workingmen. It should also be noted that Israel would not need this amount of military aid were it not for huge American arms sales to Saudi Arabia and Egypt. U.S. military aid to Israel creates a demand for, and the purchase of, tens of billions of dollars worth of U.S. weaponry by these and other Arab states.
“American arms manufacturers have a vested interest in opposing any reduction of military aid to Israel—and so do their representatives in Congress. Directly and indirectly, Israel has enriched a welter of American corporations. For this reason alone, American congressmen, irrespective of their attitude toward Israel, will oppose cuts in military aid to the Jewish state. And as world leader in software and avionics, Israel has many corporate friends in the USA.
“Mention should also be made of Israel’s medical research contribution to the U.S. And then there are the thousands of Israeli-educated engineers and scientists that live and work in the U.S. and have contributed countless billions of dollars to the American economy!
“As for the $1.2 billion Israel receives from the U.S. in ‘economic’ assistance, it does not go into building up Israel’s economy. Most of the money is used to repay pre-1974 loans for military hardware. It has been reduced by $120 million a year beginning in 1998, so that it is now negligible. By the way, Israeli economists across the political spectrum agree that U.S. aid to Israel has reduced the productivity of this country. Israel would have its own fighter aircraft were it not for myth of its dependence on the USA.
“But now consider Israel’s strategic contribution to the U.S.
“Ever since 1971, when Israel first received significant amounts of aid from the U.S., the Jewish state has helped secure NATO’s southern flank.
“In 1970, at Washington’s behest, Israel prevented a Syrian invasion of Jordan. By protecting Jordan from this client of the former Soviet Union, Israel thwarted Moscow’s ambitions in the Middle East. (By the way, it would be naive to think that Russia has permanently abandoned its historic objectives in this region.)
“Furthermore,Israel would not have been financially indebted to the U.S. had she not withdrawn from the Sinai. By so doing Israel lost a $17 billion infrastructure, including her most sophisticated air bases, as well as Israeli-developed oil fields which, by now, would have made the country energy-independent. Israel has had to spend more importing oil than she has thus far received in U.S. ‘economic’ assistance. It was as if the United States beggared Israel to display American ‘charity.’”
All this courtesy of Jimmy Carter, who brought us radical Iranian mullahs, the current mess in Israel, the doubling of our housing costs, oh so many wonderful things, while the man enriches himself on the largesse of the Saudis.
BTW, Danke, the claim that Israel murdered Muhammad al-Durah has been proven to be a hoax.
That’s Pallywood for you. You’ll have to search around for more sneaky lies. This one’s been exposed. That fact is old news for the informed.
And yes, you are definitely on the list.You have been from the start. You should be proud.You worked hard to earn your special place. Remember, Danke. I made no commitments.
ElyaKatz 11-26-2009 02:02 PM
My Final Post
I truly hope Ron Paul roots out and dissociates from the sort of people who have been obsessed with my various Israel or Jewish oriented threads (about 1/3 of the threads I started). I voted for Chuck Baldwin, per Dr. Paul’s suggestion, and wanted to write in Dr. Paul. That is how much I believed in his message. But now, I wouldn’t contribute one red penny to Dr. Paul or his son. The deafening silence from Dr. Paul and those in charge of this site, on the subject of many of the things written here, about Jews, Judaism, and Israel, is tacit approval of the agenda of the antisemites who frequent this site, zeroing in on people who hold my perspective. Then, at the same time, excuses are made for those who murder our servicemen on their bases in this country. Ron Paul allows his name to be used as a part of the name of this site. He does not object, thus he gives his tacit approval as well.
Light moderation? Not when I say something to hurt the moderators feelings. Just shows where the priorities are placed. For your reward, you will probably be flooded with these neanderthals in the coming years. Have fun with that.
I believe some of these people, this group of somewhere between 30 and 60 members who are very busy indeed, are also members of the ISM, listed as a terrorist organization in Israel, or part of various neo-Nazi organizations which might actually be involved in the illegal funding of organizations listed as terrorists by the US government, such as Hezbollah. If that is the case, I sincerely hope each and every one finds justice in this world and in the next.
Have fun with that too.
Spare me the “free speech” mantra. I know what freedom means. It means you not only have the right to worship as you choose, or not to worship. It not only means you have the right to bear arms. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights addresses the limitations placed on the government. But freedom means more than just what may not be done to you by your government. It also means you have the right to fight evil…no one is tying your hands. If you don’t, it will chase you down — and if not you then your children.
Just as antisemites have freedom in this country to spread their lies and hatred, good people, including moderators and Admin on forums that espouse the good values this nation was founded on, have the right to dispute them. You all certainly wasted little time when I hurt your tender feelings by being ever so slightly rude, on occasion You want rude Liberty Eagle? JoshLowry?? Now I am speaking my mind. The gloves are off. You have double standards that are as obvious as the agenda of Edgar Steele or David Duke.
A Lesson from Ben Hecht by Prof. Paul Eidelberg
“A propos of the report of the United Nations Human Rights Council regarding Israel’s ‘Operation Cast Lead’ in Gaza, and in view of the endorsement of this infamous report by the UN General Assembly, whose anti-Semitic or Israel-bashing tendencies are notorious, it behooves Jews to heed these words of Ben Hecht’s Guide for the Bedevilled (1944):
‘The Jewish apologists are avidly and pathetically content on stating the case for the Jew by contradicting his enemies….They feel only that anything an anti-Semite says must be contradicted and disproved—and they rush forward with statements that Jews [are humanitarians].
‘These denials, contradictions and affirmations are a preposterous waste of time. Jewish diplomacy has been wasting its time in this fashion for almost twenty centuries, offering alibis and mitigating circumstances—for what? Is there anything of which a Jew can be guilty that could match the unsavory and contemptible antics of his accusers? Apologies to whom? To that judge with blood-caked hands who sits leering from the bench? To that enfeebled and chaotic brain that calls itself an anti-Semite? Or to that smug and highty-tighty bystander, World Opinion—a gentleman who hasn’t been able to find his buttocks with both hands since he was given an alphabet to play with?
“You would think that the Jews would wake up to this one fact about themselves—that their defensive position is the chief delight and arsenal of the anti-Semite. But never comes such awakening.There have been some who have opened their eyes. Heinrich Heine woke up one day and filled the world with a burst of bitter laughter. This ‘greatest of their poets’ announced that, whatever the Jew was, the spectacle of the monstrosities who call themselves Germans setting themselves up as his judges and superiors was one which must see the Devil and all his friends laughing.
“But Heine is only a Jew—not a Jewish spokesman. The Jewish spokesmen are a little too stunned with calamity to make epigrams. Their very egoism bids them look to themselves for answers, rather than to their enemies. And they answer, scientifically, vaingloriously, despairingly. That they are arguing with lunacy, that they are titillating sadists, but they manage only to inflame their accusers by revealing their wounds—never daunts their propaganda.
“And in this struggle to disprove the anti-Semite by presenting themselves as a noble, worthy, and even wondrous people, the Jews fall into a trap that leaves their enemies cackling. For even these have enough cunning to punch holes in such contentions. The mere fact that the Jews are to be found on this earth is enough to deny their cries that they are noble or remotely wondrous. No people known to history is that—not even the Americans.
“There are two very unwise things to do in this world. One is to proclaim the fact that you are in distress—and expect your plight to bring Samaritans rushing to your side. An occasional Samaritan will arrive—but accompanied always by three hooligan sadists intent on the sport of increasing your misery. The other is the business of advertising your virtues.The ‘Jewish propaganda machine’ is more or less devoted to both schemes, and the results continue, century in and out, to be the same. In a world that admits only victors, the Jews have persisted as advertising themselves as victims only. This the Jews are not. I am not writing of those murdered but those alive. No man alive is a victim. It is not only stupid but dangerous to pronounce himself one….
“‘Such, to a large degree, is the effect of the Virtue-Apologist propaganda of the Jews. The bystander—not necessarily an anti-Semite—on hearing the overpraise attached to the name Jew, ignores it a little irritably, and bethinks himself at once of Jews he knows he wouldn’t be found dead with.
“My own attitude toward the Jews is that they need no defense—and that defending them is the major disservice I can do to them. They are and always have been the children of the world—and they look to me as good as the rest of their playmates. And, now and then, a little better.
“If there is anything special in the Jewish make-up, it lies in the ancient and still undissipated egoism of the Jew. Here is the quirk of which the anti-Semites make always a great noise. I wish only that the accusations were true—that Jews are dangerous, that they are a world menace (to the Germans), that they cannot be assimilated by Nordic peoples. (Is this really a charge or a complaint?) I wish too that there were complete truth in the accusation that the Jews are an implacable barrier to the philosophy of rampant nationalism.
“There is only one truth in all these charges. No Jew, were he given a Swastika to wear on his sleeve, could exist in the Hell made by the Germans. Not even a bad Jew.There is enough of Elijah left in him to make of him the eternal Underground against tyranny.
“It behooves the Jews to embrace this truth in the charges of his enemies with gratitude and a grin.’ “
Yes Admin and Mods…I’ve copied every last thread I’ve participated in. Have fun with that too.